America’s biggest politicians are branching out into new forms of media – and Americans are tuning in.

The presidential debate between President-elect Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris reached 67 million viewers live. The first debate between President Joe Biden and Donald Trump almost reached the same peak, striking 51 million viewers on CNN. In the absence of a third debate, episode 2219 of the “Joe Rogan Experience” – simply titled “Donald Trump” – has reached 43 million views on YouTube in just a week. With over 14 million followers on Spotify, it feels almost certain this interview will surpass the viewership of one or both official debates.

The eponymous podcast host, a UFC commentator now best known for being a podcast host, was far from the first nontraditional media interview Trump participated in this election season. Both major party candidates made a point of eschewing traditional media interviews this election cycle, favoring instead the digital platforms that previously offered them tastes of wild popularity. Trump’s X account was a bully pulpit and policy tool during his presidency, and for a brief moment in July, Kamala was “brat.”

Yet despite their shared desire for a nontraditional media spree, both candidates demonstrated fundamentally different approaches to digital media. Harris approached these new media the same as the old media, and Trump adopted strategies to maximize his parasocial appeal, reflecting a divide for what the future of digital media can be on the political stage.

Before anything else, it is important to note the underlying tension between the presidential hopefuls and some of their podcasting interlocutors. Many of these podcasts typically avoid partisan politics, with hosts lacking any meaningful political background – their claims to fame are as NFL stars, NBA players or content creators. They have perverse incentives to take partisan stances, as they want to maintain the widest possible viewerships and audiences.

Maintaining this veneer of neutrality, some podcasters express hesitation to establish a partisan stance in these presidential podcast appearances. Alex Cooper, the “Call Her Daddy” host known for her dating advice and women’s rights focus, seemingly felt obliged to begin her podcast with a statement regarding the vice-presidential guest sitting across from her.

“As you guys know, I do not usually discuss politics or have politicians on the show because I want ‘Call Her Daddy’ to be a place that everyone feels comfortable tuning in,” Cooper said. “I am so aware I have a very mixed audience when it comes to politics, so please hear me when I say my goal today is not to change your political affiliation.”

Her explicit effort to bridge potential divides in her audience is relatively unique among high-profile podcasts hosting presidential candidates. She also happens to be the most prominent woman host in the group.

Other podcasters – especially those who interview Trump – take a less sympathetic approach.

“A lot of people are going to be stoked about this interview, and a lot of people are not going to be stoked about this interview,” Bussin’ With the Boys co-host Will Compton said. “We had the opportunity to sit down with a former president who was a leader of the free world, and I think that is really cool. And if you have a problem with that, that is super unfortunate.”

Meanwhile, Joe Rogan began with no disclaimer at all, and neither did Trump’s appearance on “Adin Live” – during which the eponymous host donned a “Make America Great Again” hat in front of fellow fans. Trump’s Oct. 21 appearance on the channel of influencer collective NELK begins with Trump-themed pranks – such as offering meals made from dog or cat meat in a food truck – before they chum with Trump on his private jet.

Harris attempts to maintain more interpersonal distance from her interlocutors. Her “Call Her Daddy” and “Club Shay Shay” appearances are one-on-one conversations without gimmicks. Meanwhile, Trump endures gift sprees – including a delightfully gaudy Trump-wrapped Tesla Cybertruck – and plays party games with his guests as they seemingly try to impress him.

In other words, Harris uses digital media formats as a replacement for traditional media appearances. She wanted conversations and to get her policies in front of new eyes, not make friends. Even when she calls in to Charlamagne tha God’s “The Breakfast Club,” a podcast she has spoken with several times before, she wants to chat about how she’s securing undecided voters and outreach for Black voters. She wants to connect with their audiences as informed voters, with a pretense of impartiality maintained like in traditional media coverage.

Trump’s appearances are markedly different. When he walks onto the set of the “Full Send” podcast, he is treated like one of the boys, casually joking about how Stephen Colbert probably drinks Bud Light and signing charts depicting immigration trends in the United States. As Adin Ross gives Trump a Rolex on stream, they chat about how this stream is going to give Ross’ channel good ratings. He discusses policies and values, but he knows first and foremost it’s a show – he is connecting with fans of himself and his host.

Harris is a politician interacting with the media. Trump is an influencer among fellow influencers. One is consolidating voters around her platform, and the other is consolidating influencers around a brand – the Trump brand.

Harris’s and Trump’s appearances are gathering millions of viewers. As podcasts and digital media continue to overtake traditional media outlets, politicians will continue to appear in these podcasts and video platforms – especially with these numbers. And viewers should demand content like Harris’s interviews – not the self-indulgent, view-chasing content that Ross or the NELK boys pursue.

Politicians are not viewers’ friends, nor are the influencers they are speaking with, yet the kinds of appearances Trump is making blur the line between policy and personality until they are indistinguishable. Where Harris’s hosts talk about how important this interview is to develop a better understanding of politics, Trump’s hosts talk about conspiracy theories and play into the president’s sense of humor, generating sensational sound bites in the process.

This Trumpian approach pushes viewers away from sound considerations of their platforms. It makes a politician’s ability to connect with profit-seeking influencers a critical part of their campaign success – something that presumably has no practical application once they enter the Oval Office.

This dangerous pretense of Trump chatting and courting fans through parasocial relationships, rather than policy discussions, is likely to trickle down into the rest of the political machine. If someone’s favorite streamer or podcaster earns a big paycheck by hosting a politician, that may just push an unmotivated voter to the polls, regardless of how much political clout that entertainer ought to have. Viewers should reject this approach, and instead demand politicians be treated by their job title – not by their brand appeal.

There is room for politics in podcasting – but it is most useful as a platform for discussion, not a platform for parasocial relationships.