On this episode of Entertainment Unscripted, actress, comedian and director Lilan Bowden sits down with Daily Bruin contributor Mia Fernandez to discuss forging her own path in Hollywood.

Mia Fernandez: Hello everyone. My name is Mia Fernandez, and welcome back to Entertainment Unscripted, a series where we sit down with individuals in the media and entertainment industry to discuss their work and the field overall. You might know today’s guest from her work on “Andi Mack,” “Shrinking,” “Murderville,” among many other endeavors in the industry. Please welcome Lilan Bowden. Lilan, thank you so much for being here today. It’s such a pleasure.

Lilan Bowden: Hi.

MF: Hi. This has been a long time coming, so let’s just get right into it.

LB: Great.

MF: One of my favorite things about this industry is that there’s no one way to get into it. I like to start by asking my guests, what led you to the media and entertainment industry?

LB: I knew I always wanted to act and I think when you just have a big drive to do something, you’ll find your way one way or another. My path was: I knew I wanted to be close to Los Angeles. I chose a college that was as close as I could get at the time. I went to UC Irvine. Right after I graduated, I just landed in the city and just started doing whatever was available to me at the time. That meant student films, that meant extra work, that meant being a barista, and getting to know people who were on the same path that I was.

MF: Networking a little bit.

LB: I hate to think about it as networking because I don’t think I’m a very good networker, but I am good at making friends. I love chatting with people about how to get into the industry too. If you think about it as networking, it’s like climbing. That’s not something I can wrap my head around. If you go into it with the idea of you want to make friends, you want to make connections, you want to build community, then that’s not only an easier path, but it’s a more genuine way to approach it.

MF: It feels like a little bit less pressure. You’re right, networking is a big word.

LB: It’s a big word. It’s the network.

MF: Yeah, exactly. So what did you study at UCI?

LB: I studied drama. I went in as undecided because just listening to this colloquial advice of “It’s not realistic to have a major in theater.” I was like, “OK, I’ll just choose when I get there.” As soon as I landed at UCI and went to my friend’s orientation who was pursuing drama, I was like, “I don’t want to spend my hours doing anything else.” I switched immediately to a drama major. I don’t regret my time, but I think you could have graduated anything. Yeah, I could have been so happy being a linguistics major. I wouldn’t have been happy as a math major.

MF: That one’s tough. You also spent some time with the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

LB: The Upright Citizens Brigade Theater is an improv comedy-focused school, theater and place where people can perform. You can also see stand up comedy there. You can see sketch comedy there, musical theater comedy. I attribute a lot of my community to starting at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater first because what it offered me when I signed up for classes is, like I said, just a bunch of people were on the same journey who knew as little and as much as I did. I’m still really close with a lot of the people that were around when I started. I married somebody that I met through Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. A lot of us continue to work in entertainment. I really think that finding that was such a boon in my life.

MF: How important do you think it is to study acting, or go to some type of school for acting or something in entertainment to be successful?

LB: I think it’s regardless of how one studies, whether it’s like, “Oh, I got a degree, or I just took classes in LA or I had a little group of my own.” I think it’s super important because one, it keeps you humble. Two, it makes you better. Three, you get to form real relationships. Even though the work itself, when you get cast in a show perhaps, and when you go to set, you’re alone, you’re alone, you’re alone. But everything outside of that, no person is an island. You cannot do it alone. I’ve seen people who have tried to do it alone. It’s like, “Hey, I have a craft. I want to keep it very pristine. I want to keep it very protected.” But in so I think that they denied themselves the advantage of growth. You can’t pursue this career without an idea that you are going to grow. I felt like when I finished my formal education at UC Irvine and went to LA, that was so valuable for the next step, but it is starting over. You just reach the next step to start over. You just have to see it like that. I came in with a certain amount of skills. I came in with the friends I had made in college, and that actually helped me get going. I moved out a friend from college. Having a support person was huge in getting started because it is a very daunting industry. But I came ready to learn. I came ready to grow, and I came with the idea that I wasn’t going to be on TV right away. I think that perspective really served me.

MF: When you see all these celebrities online, it just feels like that’s where they’ve been their whole life. But the truth is, nobody starts at the top.

LB: Unless you’re somebody’s kid and that’s fine. You have your own challenges. That life has a lot of other kinds of obstacles. For people who don’t have any connections, who are like, “Hey, I just have the drive to want to entertain, to perform, to tell stories.” It’s all about being like, “What can I learn?

MF: Sometimes that’s all you need, is the drive, the motivation. For an actor starting out, how do you get those first auditions? Is that something, if you can speak on your experience, that you did on your own, or do you feel like you need an agent to do that?

LB: I’m a big believer in being a self starter. Seeing what you can do on your own and what you have access to. There’s going to be bad experiences, of course, but everything is going to serve in some way. You’re going to audition for something and be like, “Well, that really wasn’t worth my time,” after completing a project. Then you’ll know that’s not something I want to do again or you’re going to do something that’s going to be like, “Well, that was really fun. I don’t know if I gained anything from it.” Then three years later, five years later, maybe even ten years later, there’s going to be some world where the people that you met, the friend that you made, the director you work with, is going to be like, “Oh, I remember that person.” You really can’t go wrong by just trying a lot of different things on your own. I’m such a big advocate in not trying to get an agent first because, in my experience, an agent is a business person. You’re lucky if you can get an agent who also gets you and can be your friend, but an agent is looking to make money off of you. An agent does not make a career. An agent is looking for somebody who’s already ready to go. That was my experience when I was meeting with agencies. They’d say, “Hey, we really like you. We think you’re cute. We think you’re talented. We just don’t know what we can do for you. Nobody knows you.” It is a catch-22. I was like, “OK, fine.” There are a lot of resources, even if they don’t feel really glamorous. Don’t get stuck in extra work, but I feel like that is part of one thing that I was like, “Well this is a way to spend time that is connected to what I want to do.” I did a lot of student films. I did sometimes really good and sometimes really bad. You don’t want anybody to see your growth work on TV. You want it to be in hopefully buried films, or hopefully seen films. I spent my time doing live improv comedy because I love doing it. Not an idea of like, “OK, I’m doing this show, so if I do 30 shows, then I can get on TV.” It wasn’t even about that. It was just like, “Oh, I just want to move in the space. I just want to see what’s out there.” Sorry, what was the question?

MF: No, that was great. You answered it already. There is so much out there, so I think it’s great that you did that for yourself.

LB: By the time, an agent did want me, I went back and I was in plays, I had made connections through Upright Citizens Brigade. Some of the people who were my teachers became showrunners of shows. One of my first jobs was one of my former teachers being like, “Hey, there is a part that is right for you. It’s a couple lines. Are you interested?” I was like, “Oh, I would love to audition.” “No, you just have the part.” I was like, “Oh wow.” I was able to go back to the same agency with a credit now. That whole experience was just so different that second time around. They’re like, “Wow, I can’t believe anybody hasn’t taken you up yet. We’re so excited to grab you first,” because then they saw me as somebody who was a money maker. That’s so crass, but I think it is truthful.

MF: It’s good to know the reality because it’s not always talked about, but it’s important to know, especially for those who do want to get into that industry. Let’s say you’re getting ready for auditions. How do you even begin to shape a character and turn words on a page into something that you can embody?

LB: Great question. Everything is going to be different too. Commercial auditions are going to be very different from TV and film under the umbrella of theatrical auditions. I’ll speak to each separately too because I do think that commercial auditions are going to be a big part of many people’s paths to TV and film. For a small part, where you know that your part serves some bigger thing, and we’re not auditioning for Flo from Progressive, we’re auditioning for one person who is eating a taco. It’s important to just remember that you are fun and great. Try to find that authenticity outside of the nervousness of, “Oh my gosh, if I booked this job, then I could have the money to pay the rent, and that would be great.” There is a lot that is going to be in your mind and in your heart to get in the way. Just sift through that and remember that you are fun and great. You’re already ready for these things where they need someone to serve a small purpose. There’s no small parts, but the prep is different. If you’re auditioning for a short film where you are carrying it. You’re auditioning for a guest star in a TV show. Say you’re with an agent, and you get an email in your inbox. The breakdown is the description of the character and you’re going to get things that are maybe similar to you, but not exactly you. That can really trip one up too. What I do to really meet that person, if I get a breakdown that’s like, “She’s a high-powered lawyer that doesn’t take no for an answer, and she’s beautiful and sexy and mean, but also likable.” You will get these breakdowns that will trip you up. Even in my career now, I’ve been through a lot of things, I can still fall into that trap. I’m like “OK, I have to be a high-powered sexy lawyer.” You’re going to have to do it on days where you don’t really. I’m like, “Oh, I have allergies.” Remember that, the people who are watching these tapes and the people who want to tell their stories are not looking for the best, high-powered sexy lawyer. They’re looking for a person with life. That person could be actually just you. To remember that, instead of being like, “OK, I have to be this person,” I ask myself, “What would my life be like, and what would I be like if I were a lawyer and if I had that ambition?” I bring up the adjective sexy because I do feel like that does appear in breakdowns. Impossible to play. No one who feels appealing is going around being like, “I’m so sexy.” Especially as a woman, right? You’ll see that breakdown a lot for characters that identify as female. The way past it is just throw these words out that are traps and think about, “If I were a lawyer, I would be tired because I would be studying a lot. I know how I feel when I feel accomplished and I can get a little cocky.” I find that way through how it’s always true to me. That was a long answer.

MF: That was a great answer.

LB: To remember that putting yourself on tape or going into a room, they still happen. To audition for a character is not just you serving the role, it’s a collaboration. They’re looking for somebody who’s going to give them something that will surprise them. That could be you, even if you feel like you don’t match the breakdown exactly. There’s a lot of fun anecdotes in the industry too. I don’t know if they’re true or not so I’m not going to mention real shows. Some actor goes in for a high powered lawyer but he is like, “Man, I cannot connect to that,” so he goes in a greasy T-shirt. He’s so himself they’re like, “Well we got to change the character now.” That doesn’t always happen, but there are enough anecdotes that show that at the end of the day what people are looking for is the vivacity and authenticity over who is going to really nail just this description.

MF: That’s really interesting. You have to go for it and put your all into it.

LB: I think so and to know that you’re already enough. We can build on our skills, build on how to access our emotions. We can build on that, but you don’t have to change your personality because you can’t. It’s a futile game to be like, “Now I’m evil.” Evil people don’t think about themselves as evil either. If you’re always going through yourself, then I feel like that’s going to be the most interesting performance.

MF: Wow, I love that. I want to bring up an interview that you did in 2017. It was with Los Angeles Times High School Insider. Do you remember?

LB: The short answer is no.

MF: It was a bit ago. In this interview, the interviewer mentioned how diversity was a hot topic at that time. You expressed how, as an Asian American woman, you were often put up for roles, such as the ethnic best friend, or generally for supporting roles. So I’m curious, in these past eight years, has that reality changed for you? Are you being put up for more diverse roles, or do you feel like maybe the industry is in the same place as it was in that regard?

LB: That’s a really great question. It really is because I only get to see it from my lens. I’ve only done more projects and I’ve only made more connections since then too. It’s like, is this just my experience where people just really see me now. Are other people having this experience? I’m not sure. I definitely think it’s been a good thing that there has been an awareness to it because it’s been taken for granted for so long. It was for granted by me as a young actor, where my role is to play the ethnic best friend or my role is to support. There just wasn’t a lot of chances otherwise. In order for there to be a true embracing. Diversity is such a loaded word, but of a wide variety of stories. Ones that I have not had access to. There has to be a lot of trust and a lot of change of power to people who have these stories to tell. It’s hard to tell if that has changed or not. What I can speak to is that I’ve had a lot more trust in myself as a person that could carry a show. Whether or not that is true on the outside, it’s a perspective that serves me. For people who do feel pigeonholed, to not gaslight anybody and be like “It’s not the reality,” but it is a perspective that serves me. I think it serves other people to just be like, it actually probably could be real that you’re always going to be looked at as a gangster. You’re always going to be looked at as the ethnic best friend. Those roles are definitely still happening by the way. Unfortunately with some tone deafness behind it, of “We’re seeing anybody who is ‘diverse.’” Where is the imagination? Where is the specificity in this best friend role? For people who do feel pigeonholed it’s like, “You are valuable. You are just as worthy of carrying a show no matter what you’re seeing from the outside.” That’s how my personal perspective has changed.

MF: It goes back to what we were saying earlier. You have to be your biggest fan in this world, it feels like.

LB: It’s so nice because it’s tough. It’s so nice to remember that you have something to offer at all times. Just through repetition, just through the amount of, people call it rejection, but when it just happens all the time it’s just the norm. You’re going to book a very small amount of auditions. Extremely small number. People say, “Oh, I’m on a streak. I’ve gotten a callback for my last three auditions, so now it’s different.” I hate to be like, “I hope that’s true but it might not be.” To weather a constant storm, a constant battering of your ship, is to remember that you are valuable. Be your biggest fan, like you said.

MF: That’s amazing. In your own experience, you both guest starred in shows and you’ve had recurring roles on shows that you’ve hung on to from episode one to the last episode. I’m curious, do you take a different approach when you are maybe being put into a show that already has an established tone, environment, cast, compared to a different show where you go with it?

LB: That’s just an opportunity that’s given to you. If you’re on the ground floor, if you’re starting a show, you get to be more contributive just by default. Nobody knows what it’s going to be until it’s shot. They cast you because they like your tone and you are setting the tone. That was true of “Andi Mack.” Even though I’m a guest star on “Shrinking,” that’s true of “Shrinking” too because I got to be in the pilot. I can’t speak to what the showrunners were thinking, what the casting office was thinking, but when I got the role, nothing else had been established so I’m like, “I don’t see this person as different way than what I’m bringing.” It’s not something that I prepared for, but it’s something that happens to you. I guess the short answer is no, I don’t. Even if you get cast in a show that’s so established. I’m also recurring on “NCIS.” This show has been around for over 20 years. They know what they’re doing. When I auditioned, I couldn’t think about it as “Oh it’s a serious show about solving crimes” because I wouldn’t be able to find myself in that. I’ve never solved crime. Granted I don’t play a character that does.She’s fun. Having to trust that, if they’ve cast you, they want that. You’ve already fit the tone of the show.

MF: Right. That makes sense. Speaking of “Andi Mack” too, I’d like to ask you a little bit about that.

LB: I love talking about “Andi Mack.”

MF: For anyone that doesn’t know, it was a Disney Channel original series. Ran for three seasons from 2017 to 2019 and it followed the life of Andi Mack, who was played by Peyton Elizabeth Lee. Lilan played Bex, her older sister. The show follows their life after the big reveal that Bex is her mother, not her sister. Crazy beginning to a show. I watched that show growing up and a lot of the shows build up to a big twist, but this big twist was in the first episode. It had me hooked when I was a kid. Had me hooked again while I was re-watching it recently. I’m curious, what was it like for you and maybe the other cast when you learned about the storyline?

LB: I got to learn about it in the audition. They put in the breakdown just to hide it a little bit like, “Oh, she’s playing her older sister.” The sides, the material that I went to audition with were “I’m not your sister, I’m your mother,” so there was no way to hide that. It’s so nice when you can tap into something a little bit more beyond. You’ve got a feeling about something and then that feeling turns out to be right where I’m like, “Oh, this is a special show. This is real.” I felt really optimistic about it. Not in the sense where “I got this,” but I felt different about this. Even from just reading the material and about how I connected to it more than I was feeling about different things that I was auditioning for. It had that magic even before we shot the pilot. There was something about this show that I knew was going to be really awesome.Part of it too is sometimes an actor has to remind themselves, “Oh, it is me that is in the role.” Sometimes it just happens to you where I wasn’t hung up. I’m like, “I haven’t had these circumstances where I had a daughter then left her with my mom and disappeared for thirteen years.” Something about the dialogue. It was so well written, and it felt like it was already in my voice. She was a little self deprecating. She used humor to move through stuff. She was friendly and flawed. I was like, “I get this person. I get her.” That was a really lovely gift where I didn’t have to be like, “Okay, how can I put myself into it?” It spoke to me. It was like, “Oh, I get you. I am her.”

MF: You mentioned that you knew it was special already, but did you know that you guys were going to make history with it?

LB: No. What a ride to be on to see things unfold in real time. It was so special to so many of us. I believe all of the kids, it was their first series regular, continuous series regular. I could be wrong about that. It was my first series regular. It wasn’t Lauren Tom, my mom’s first. We were all in this special world together. We’re like, “Can you believe? Can you believe? Can you believe?” It was so electric for all of us because we got to start on the ground floor together.

MF: Grow with it. Literally, especially the younger ones.

LB: I saw them go from kids to older kids and now they’re grown ups. Adults. In my mind they’re always a kid turned adult. “You’re a grown up.”

MF: As the cast, you guys stepped into the public eye. What was that like becoming a public figure?

LB: It was really wild. To speak really honestly to it, it was really surprising and I’m not going to say disorienting. I wonder if it’s different for a kid where you’re just growing up in general and so growing up is growing this way. For being a grown up and having lived a very different life before that too, it was a very new experience to feel like very much in the public eye. Balancing responsibility with just living life. I can’t say I took it for granted. It really caught me by surprise, but I didn’t even know I was being surprised, because it happened so gradually.

MF: How about even now? How do you try to stay grounded when a lot of your work and your personal life is public?

LB: It’s good that I just happen to be an oversharer by nature. It really does go back to the community. I’ve got these great friends, I’ve got a solid partner. I’m so lucky in so many ways, and I got to have a kid last year. That was an awesome gift because your role has to change. I’m not just an actor – I’m a mom, friend, spouse. Remembering that this part of my life, the public part of my life is a slice in a pie chart, of my whole thing has been really helpful for me.

MF: You’re very active on social media too. How do you decide what parts of your life you want to share?

LB: That’s a good question. I still navigate through that too. Social media grew at a time where I was growing my career. When Instagram first came out, it was really just a message board for friends that were pictures. It was like, “Hello, remember when we all were at this karaoke bar everybody?” Then it did have to change when I got on “Andi Mack” because my only peers, the only people who were looking at my social media, were buddies who got inside jokes, who were familiar with content. Now, everything I put out is a representation of myself, but also I’m very human too. Some days I’m very passionate about certain things and some days I’m like, “Oh, but I am a public figure.” I think we’re all finding our way through that. It’s too limited to say that no perspective is wrong, no way to go about it is wrong. The truth is that, as you know from my social media, I’m really politically active. I know for my friends who are also in entertainment, who have a platform, who are politically active, something that gets talked about is “I wish more people were talking about this. I wish more people were bringing attention to this.” The truth is that it’s a lot. A lot’s going on in our world. As a public figure, a lot is expected of you by people you don’t know. Especially for younger actors too. I have a big heart for younger actors who are living right now in a world of entertainment and social media because how do you even know who you are? How do you even know what you believe in? I have been politically active since I was seventeen years old. I was going door to door for the human rights campaign, an LGBT organization, and I’ve evolved so much too. I’m learning to have grace for myself being like, “Hey, I can’t help but care, and I can’t help but share.” I’m not going to put that on anybody else. I’m not going to put that responsibility on anybody else. Everybody gets the right to not have a social media presence and to learn and to grow and to be wrong. I think every actor has toyed with the idea of “What if I just went dark?”

MF: To bring it back to “Andi Mack” again, one of my favorite things about that show, and just TV shows in general, is seeing the bond that a cast builds and you all seem very close. How do those off screen relationships influence the on screen dynamics?

LB: It’s so awesome when you get to be a part of an ensemble that are friends off-screen because the trust is so much there. You can see a lot of shows where the skill is so tight, where actors don’t need trust from each other. Depending on the content, sometimes you really don’t need it. Sometimes you need to have some tension. Not for a show like “Andi Mack,” of course, it’s a group of friends. It’s a family. You can try things, you can really elevate it too. Peyton, and I could come to directors and be like, “Hey, we really want this idea. Can we try it like this?” and you become part of the creative flow. It’s such an awesome experience. I hope for people who pursue that career, they get to have their own experiences because then you really can create some cool stuff.

MF: You guys had a reunion recently.

LB: To raise money for the victims of those fires.

MF: How did that come about? How did it feel to all come together again?

LB: It was so cool. It was fun because it was on our own too. Peyton had contacted me, and Luke, who played TJ, had contacted her, or they had been working on it together. They’re like, “What do you think of this?” There was so much excitement from jump which I think goes to show that we needed as much as people could have needed the support. Fans might have wanted to see that. It is wild to spend three years of your life with this group of people, but that’s just how the industry goes. Then you’re onto different projects. You move to different countries or cities or whatever. To be back in that was nourishing. It reminds you, “Oh yeah, we are all friends. We should hangout.” What a great experience.

MF: I tuned in and it was like nothing, like no time had passed. You guys were back in a family and friends again. It was lovely.

LB: You saw us throwing shade on each other, going back into those rhythms. I don’t know if that was surprising to us, but it did feel like the click is back, we are here. We are just like we are on set again.

MF: You guys were dedicated. What was your goal? $20,000?

LB: We raised $20,000.

MF: You guys were dedicated, giving away drawings or something.

LB: It took forever to do that. There is one of these drawings that did not get sent out. I don’t know who’s listening to this podcast, but the address bounced back. If you were a person that donated over $300 and you did not get your drawing, just comment on one of my things. DM me your right address. I’ve got to get this to you. It’s just sitting in my closet. What was so great about that is that because we weren’t going through some type of orchestrated company, and it wasn’t Disney that was putting on, which would have been fine, but we were just like, “Oh, let’s just do it ourselves.” There was a realness to just getting back together. There was a lot of agency too. It was like, “Oh, we could just do this.” Those drawings that we did had so much love. We had to get back together a couple weeks later, when we all were free again. We were all just sitting around, making drawings.

MF: Doing arts and crafts together.

LB: Doing arts and crafts essentially.

MF: Hope to see more from all of you guys in the future as well. I want to transition to another show that you’ve been on, “Murderville.” I’ve never seen a show that was half scripted, half improvised like that. For anybody that hasn’t watched it, it’s on Netflix. Basically celebrity guests are brought into these fictional crime scene scenarios as “detective trainees” and they have to figure out who the murderer is. You play Amber Kang, who is the medical examiner, the forensics expert. What was it like being that character in a situation where there are kind of unexpected scenarios that could arise where you have to improvise. Do you feel like you have to know the character better to stay true to them in those unexpected situations?

LB: In that case, my improv background really served me. That was part of the requirement for auditioning for the role. They were like, “Hey, we want to see you in improv shows. Do you have clips of those to send in to show that you are amenable? To show that you’re not just locked into a script.” I didn’t have to think about that too much. In fact, the show moves so quickly, there’s a lot of stuff, like my notes from the director was like, “Less.” You do not have to carry. It was so easy and fun in that way.

MF: It’s fun too as a viewer, because I was trying to figure out what was scripted and what wasn’t because it was just so natural.

LB: It was so fun also working with the other cast members too. They were so movable, too. The writers were writing on the spot because our celebrity guest would give something. Haneefah, who plays the chief detective, “There’s been a murder.” She had an earpiece in, and was getting fed new stuff because the details had changed, and that’s not something you can improvise. It was really like an improv, in that case, it was improvised. The set was in it too. It wasn’t just the actors who were improvising. We were making up the script based on what we got.

MF: I’m curious, just in general, what draws you to improv, specifically.

LB: I’ve been doing improv comedy since I was fourteen years old. It was a comedy sports club at my high school. I didn’t really think about it before, but I really found my voice in there, like “Oh, this is something that feels good where we just play games and make people laugh.” It felt easier than stand up comedy to me. It felt so accessible. From that point, I was hooked. I did it in college as well. Then when I went to Upright Citizens Brigade, it’s not really playing games. You’re making up a show, you’re making up a script on the spot. It might have three lines, it might not, often it doesn’t. It’s made up, it’s a lot of chaos. It just felt like because the stakes are so low, because no one’s expecting a perfect product, because they know it’s made up, I could live in this world forever. I did, and I do. It’s a really happy place for me.

MF: We’re improvising all the time, really.

LB: Improv is life and it only helps my work. It only makes a person more flexible. It only makes me more available. I love improv comedy. There’s also dramatic improv too for people who have got an interest and haven’t thought about it yet. I would say, take that class, or start in a troupe. The gifts that come back. No one sees it, you’re not dedicating a lot of time, and it’s free. Classes aren’t free but to perform costs nothing. It’s not like making your own film from scratch, which is cool and a great thing, and also should be done.

MF: Is there any way that you prepare, or can you even prepare for an improv performance?

LB: Yes, you can, but it’s not about what you’re gonna see in the show. It’s about shaking off the dust and building trust with the team. So there’s a lot of rituals or even superstitions sometimes that an improv group will do before they go on stage, even if they’ve been performing together for a long time. One of the simplest ones is, you’ll have an ensemble of five or eight people. As we’re waiting in the wings getting ready to be called on stage, quietly we’ll tap each other on the back and say, “I got your back.” We all make sure we do that with each person. That way, if somebody tries something that sinks, there’s a team of people to be like, “No, that was actually a right choice.” If someone just says something like, “Oh, it’s got to be so funny. I am a butler,” and comes out with a stupid voice playing a butler, and nobody laughs. If you’re with a good team, someone else is going to be like, “Yes, and I am the maid,” and support you. Say, “No audience, this was the plan all along.”

MF: It creates a game on stage and with the audience. You’ve also had some directing experience. Was that something you always wanted to pursue, or just decided to try?

LB: That came later. I don’t know if my life path would have been different from the start if I just saw more female directors. Representation really does matter. It doesn’t have to be in a really conscious way. It’s a subconscious thing. The only directors I had ever known about are Scorsese, Spielberg. They just seemed so grand and I was just like, “OK well, I like acting. I’ll just do that.” I realized I had this big love of storytelling in this way, and what appeals to me as a director is, like I said, I’m not just a sharer. I’m an over-sharer. Directing is such a sharing profession, where you’re working with so many people. It almost feels like conducting, in some ways, a symphony where you can’t exist without all these parts. Someone has to figure out where they go and when, who says what at what time, and what a certain thing needs at what point. I just found that I loved that craft, and that just came up so accidentally. It came up from making short films with my friends because I wanted to act in them, but then realizing, “Oh, this is a really gratifying practice too.” I got some opportunities later to direct a high budget short. That was one aspect that helped me get into the Disney directing program. That led to me directing an episode of television. I directed the Disney show, “The Villains of Valleyview.” That was so awesome.

MF: How was it on Disney Channel as an actor and then coming back to direct?

LB: So cool. There is a family element in Disney because there are only a certain amount of shows that go on. Because they’re youth-based, Disney does do things where they have events for their talent to meet each other. They did before the pandemic. I don’t know if that’s different now. I haven’t been on a Disney show since then, besides as a director. There are familiar faces that get to be seen, and then you get to meet different ecosystems too. Youth television is its own thing. There are things that are so specific about it, so it does feel a little bit smaller in a good way where it does feel more connected.

MF: How do your experiences with directing and acting interact with one another? Do you feel like they’ve influenced the way you’ve approached either one of them?

LB: Yeah. I think again too, being in a growth mindset is so valuable for creative crafts because creative crafts are vulnerable, they’re changing and they’re fluid. There are some traits that people learn where it’s like, well, if you know how to fix a car. I guess cars change too, but your craft is inside you. You don’t leave it. Being able to see things literally from an outside perspective gives you new information or reminds you of information you’ve got because you cannot escape your own vessel. Definitely being in the director’s seat has been informative for my acting and definitely being an actor way informative for a director. As an actor, you can tell right away if a director does not have acting experience. It’s just a different mindset too because you are one part of something, I’m sure, in the same way, I think a camera crew can tell if a director came from the world of camera. I didn’t come from that world of camera, too, so I was very grateful to my camera team. It was just like, “Look, we got you.” If you want to set up the shot, you can collaborate with us, and we will support you on how to get it. Actors are really vulnerable, and we’re really sensitive. A lot of us are really eager to please. Being able to know that going in too, I felt like I was able to cut through a lot of layers connecting with my actors.

MF: That’s great. Moving forward, do you feel like you’re drawn to any area, directing, improv acting, or do you feel like this is an industry where you can do it all?

LB: You can, and you can change. I can’t not talk about things without keeping the landscape of our industry and the world in mind. What we’ve seen is that nothing is for certain. If I’m speaking about our industry specifically, there’s this turbo beat of making it, or you’ve made it. I just don’t think finite terms have a place ever, but especially right now. I think having an openness to fluidity is so great to remind somebody of why you got into something in the first place because nothing is guaranteed. I’m not trying to get down here, but the truth is, it was always a tough industry. I’m here not just because of my hard work, but because of fortune, luck, breaks and that changes. You can’t guarantee this for somebody who is so talented, so hard working and so driven. You just can’t. So what makes a beautiful life? It’s remembering why you did it. That might mean shaking it up. For me, it’s not about, “Oh, I want to be an actor. I want to do acting, or I want to do directing, or I want to do stuff.” It’s about, how do I express myself because I can’t not? That’s going to show up in the form, I hope, directing sometimes. It’s going to show up in the form of the rules that I play. It’s going to show up in my live performances that maybe only eight people will see for some shows, but it will be the best work that I’ve done all year. It doesn’t matter for me because my craft, my vessel is alive.

MF: You kind of beat me to my next question. I was going to ask if you had any advice or any, just to close this out here, any words of wisdom for maybe some of our students, or anybody listening who wants to get into this industry?

LB: I see what you mean.

MF: That was some great advice already.

LB: Doubling down on, we get into this industry because we are a special breed. People who get into the world of acting, entertainment, storytelling, directing, filmmaking, usually are not people who love stability. All of us do love it to a point because we need it to survive. I’m glad this is also being recorded for people to see the experience because you’ve been watching me this whole time as I’m moving my hands in this flowy motion. It’s weather. You are a sailor on a boat that never docks, I feel like when you decide to pursue a career in this. It’s so important, I think, to get in touch with oneself and be like, You gotta love the sea. Do you love the sea?

Sometimes the things that will get you through the years are not going to be the big successes and stuff like that. It’s going to be, “Oh my gosh. I felt so alive when I did that improv show with my friends. I felt so alive when I got to book that pilot where they wrote my character out so I never made it to TV,” which happened to me. That was one of my first jobs. My very first “series regular” I booked it and I was like, “Oh my gosh, my life will change forever. I’m going to be on TV. I’m going to be famous. I’m gonna buy a house.” I quit my barista job, and then after the studio read, they eliminated me from the project. I was like, “Oh no, I have to beg for my coffee job back.” I actually didn’t. I was too proud, and so I just did odd jobs for a long time.

But those things happen. I share that to be like, that’s got to happen. You’ll get some awesome stuff happen. No one gets to do what we do when you get those wins. But when those wins aren’t happening, is that journey something that you are amenable to? If that keeps you alive, if your own art keeps you alive, then go for it, because you’re not going to want to spend your time any other way.

MF: That was amazing Lilan. I love all the metaphors.

LB: Sometimes I don’t know how to actually put it in terms that aren’t images.

MF: It’s more digestible that way. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lilan for being here, for coming on and speaking with me. I enjoyed learning so much about you and the space in general.

LB: Thank you for this, Mia. This was so gratifying for me as well.

MF: Of course, and thank you everybody for listening to another episode of Entertainment Unscripted. If you want to hear more episodes, make sure you tune in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube and dailybruin.com. Follow @dailybruin and @dailybruinpodcasts on Instagram to be the first to know when a new episode premieres.

Both: Bye