Listen to series host and podcast contributor Megan Vahdat sit down with the director of UCLA’s Iranian music program, Dr. Shahab Paranj, to discuss the importance of sharing traditional Iranian music with new generations.

Megan Vahdat: I’m Megan Vahdat, and this is Persian Perspectives Today, a podcast that explores the viewpoints of Iranian leaders in arts, science, education and politics in the UCLA community and beyond. Today I am joined by Dr. Shahab Paranj. Dr. Paranj is an Iranian-born concert music composer and instrumentalist. He is the director of UCLA’s Iranian music program, the only program of its kind outside of Iran. He earned his Ph.D. in music composition at UCLA, where he studied under influential Iranian musicians and composers such as Richard Danielpour. He has composed internationally recognized operas, chamber music, solo pieces and film scores.

Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Paranj.

Shahab Paranj: Thank you, Megan. Thanks for having me here.

MV: Many of us know you as a tombak virtuoso who’s traveled the world composing and performing Iranian music. To start off today’s interview, I wanted to ask how your interest and fascination with Iranian music began. Did you appreciate music as a child, or was it something you became interested in later on?

SP: Well, my journey as a musician started when I was 3 or 4. I mean, I don’t remember exactly when I started learning Iranian instruments. My first instrument was tombak. My dad was my first teacher. He was also a santour player, besides what he was doing professionally in his career. So I don’t know if he wanted to teach me tombak or if he wanted someone to play tombak with.

So when I was four or five, I was already playing tombak. And then, little by little, I got more interested, and I took lessons from professional musicians there. And then, of course, I realized I wanted to be a musician. Then I went to Tehran music school. I started playing cello, Persian fiddle and kamancheh. And then at some point, at the age of 19, I became really interested in composition, which was a completely different approach as a musician to look at music in a different way – because, again, my journey as a musician was part Iranian musician, but also, I was learning Western classical music. I was in Tehran, Iran – (the) national TV and radio symphony orchestra, playing cello. But also, I was performing with Shamss Ensemble professionally, playing tombak and Persian percussion, and I was basically touring with them around the world. So I had these two sides of music with me. So at some point, I started thinking, “Okay, maybe I have to do something about it in my composition.” So that’s why I started thinking: Maybe I can bring these two worlds together as a composer in my composition.

MV: Western classical music and Iranian music are such distinct styles from one another. I think very few people think to synthesize those two styles of music in their composition. Why did you choose to focus so deeply on those two styles of music?

SP: Well, it’s a very interesting question, because usually, an Iranian musician who lives in Iran only focuses probably on one genre: either Iranian classical music or Western music. But for me, I was so curious about the whole thing. I couldn’t afford not listening to Beethoven, not listening to Mozart – but also, I was living with Jalil Shahnaz’s performance of a lot of beautiful music or listening to Mr. Shajarian.
So, bottom line – they’re all music. But I was fortunate to learn them both as deeply as I could. And I am still learning, I have to say. Even through my composition, I’m still trying to learn, because there is so much, especially with Iranian music. In Western classical music, there is a lot of research. There’s a lot of – I mean, a lot of – knowledge created through Western classical music. With Iranian music, because it was an oral tradition, we don’t have much written in terms of research about this music. So this actually gives me more motivation to not only enjoy both types of music but also to create knowledge about Iranian classical music and define this music for non-Iranians.

MV: I think some of my favorite pieces that you’ve composed are pieces that feature a distinctly Iranian melody that so many of us who are Iranian grew up listening to with our families at more professional settings at concerts. But they’re intended to be played on instruments that you don’t typically associate with Iranian music, such as the guitar. And I think that produces a really unique and beautiful sound that many of us appreciate.

And you mentioned a bit earlier that you play a wide variety of instruments as well. You’re a cellist, on top of everything. At our UCLA Iranian music concert last spring, you played several different instruments along with the ensembles featured that day. Can you tell us about the different instruments you play and your experiences learning them?

SP: You know, in music, when you are trying to think a little farther than the surface of the music, you start realizing that for every genre, for every single, even, instrument – you basically become a different person. So when I compose, for example – I’ll give you an example. I mean, you mentioned guitar music. But when you look at guitar, at first glance you realize, “Oh, this has nothing. There is no association with Iranian music.” But you think about it, you look at flamenco music, and you see a direct link between Iranian classical music and flamenco music. It came from the same place. I do believe that. And the nature of the music, it’s exactly the same – like how the singer leads the ensemble, how they answer and question between the instrument and the singer, and the rhythmic nature of the pieces they perform is non-metric, but they find a way to actually follow each other. These are very unique things. And you only find it in flamenco music, Iranian music or music that is similar to these traditions.

So I look into it and realize, “Oh, well, I can find a similarity between guitar and tambour and tar and sitar.” So I try to explore sitar technique or tambour technique in guitar. And when you even go farther, you realize, “Wow, the name of the guitar came from the same region.” And because “tar” in Persian means “string,” all these little things – you put them together. You create your own world with your music, but they are all coming from your curiosity. As a musician, I always encourage myself to be a kid in that sense because when you have the qualities of a kid, you’re always curious, but also you’re not afraid of defeat. You’re not afraid of being judged. So you always create, you’re always learning. And this was the great thing.

It’s very funny: When I got my Ph.D. here at UCLA, the last question the committee asked me was, “What did you learn here?” I said, “The only thing that I know right now I can say is that I learned to be a good student for my entire life.” So I can question. I can learn no matter where I am, what kind of position I have or where I stand with my music. So I’m always curious as a person and as a musician.

MV: Not many people would see the stylistic similarities between traditional flamenco music and Iranian music. That is something, as a guitarist, I’ve not considered very often, even though I am Iranian and I’m listening to these two styles of music very often. And I think for so many of us who grew up in the U.S. (United States) playing these traditional Western instruments, there aren’t many opportunities to translate Iranian pieces onto those instruments. For instance, with a guitar, the positioning of the frets makes it difficult to play a piece that wasn’t intended for the guitar. But your compositions, written especially for these sorts of instruments, allow so many more people to play Iranian music on their own instruments and to appreciate those melodies and share them in a new way. That’s something I’ve experienced and many students in my Iranian music classes here at UCLA have particularly appreciated. You’ve been instrumental in the development of many of these Iranian music courses. Can you tell us a little more about the significance of the Iranian music program and how you became involved with it?

SP: Absolutely. I think it was six or seven years ago when this program started at UCLA. It is one of the rare programs in the world that actually encourages students to learn Iranian music. At first, I wasn’t that much involved with the program, but after several years, I realized that there is so much potential with this program and the resources we have. And I always had this mission to see how we can teach non-Iranians Iranian music, and this gives us a great opportunity to not only promote Iranian music but also to preserve it. So it’s very interesting.

I have a student right now at UCLA. She is not Iranian; she’s American. She went and learned the Persian language and Persian singing. And she’s as good as a lot of great singers we have. She’s still learning. But it’s just fascinating to see how this young student is basically in love with the culture, with the language, with the music – which is not too accessible at first for non-Iranians in a way that it’s not something that you need to basically educate yourself to learn about it. I have a student from Israel. He learned Iranian classical instruments, and they are part of the professional ensemble we have. So these are the great things about Iranian culture that are bigger than any political or other forces that can separate people.

So, bottom line, Iran went through a lot of difficult times throughout history. But this culture was always something that could save us in many ways. It was the language, the music, the literature – all those things could save us to survive through those unfortunate events. So I think after 45 years, I mean, Los Angeles is a very important city for Iranians. Basically, it’s the second capital of Iran for Iranians. And it’s very interesting because Los Angeles also is an important city in the world in a way that we practice diversity in a very organic way. I mean, this is the nature of this country. But I think California, especially Los Angeles, because of the existence of a middle class in the city, actually allows us to practice our culture organically. It’s not just for Iranians. We have Armenian music schools, South Asian cultures and many different cultures actually doing the same thing: practicing and promoting their own music. And I think we are so lucky and fortunate to live in a place where we are able to be exposed to different cultures, to different traditions.

I would say this is a very organic way of practicing democracy in the modern world.
And I think a lot of countries, a lot of cities around the world could learn from what we have been doing in Los Angeles. These days, it’s hard to talk about positive things in the world, but I think we always have to look at things from a different angle because we don’t have the luxury of being negative, especially right now. So we have to be optimistic and always see the positive things happening around us.

MV: Music really is the essence of traditional Iranian culture. I took Professor Pejman Hadadi’s tombak class last spring, and I watched as students who weren’t from Iranian backgrounds taking the course became more interested in my customs, were asking me more questions, and started to become genuinely interested in Iranian history and politics. In an era of remarkable political tension, those sorts of conversations and mutual understanding that, in so many ways, transcend politics are especially important today. And I think that is so much the mission of the work that you do on a day-to-day basis.

SP: Thank you for mentioning this, because I have also established an orchestra in Los Angeles. It’s called Iranshahr Orchestra. So the mission is to basically promote and preserve Iranian music by commissioning pieces by not only Iranian composers but also non-Iranians. But the subject has to be related to Iranian culture somehow.

There are so many pieces that are not easy to play, and they involve a lot of tones that are not familiar to Western classical musicians. All the orchestra members, actually, are non-Iranians, but they are very professional musicians – some of them even play in the LA Philharmonic. So dealing with these amazing musicians, also with music that they are not familiar with, can be challenging. But again, because these musicians are professional but also curious and willing to practice this diversity, sometimes I have to bring my sitar and start playing the scale in Persian, different Persian modes. And I ask them to basically sing those modes, and after that, they can start playing the modes. And then we get to the pieces, which is something that we have to do with a lot of pieces because composers have different approaches. So I am fortunate to have this opportunity to work with these musicians. They are not only amazing musicians but also willing to learn about the different musical cultures around the world. So again, I think this is something valuable that we can find in Los Angeles.

MV: Yes. I was surprised, even myself, how many students who aren’t Iranian are excited to learn about our music and our history. And I think for so many of the Iranian students in the class, it was an empowering feeling to see an appreciation for our culture.

SP: It’s interesting because it’s also not just for non-Iranians. A lot of Iranians who were born here, their parents are Iranian. They’re basically second- or third- generation. They were raised here. They’ve never even been to Iran. But I really like to work with them because I realize, it’s like you trigger something inside of their gene, and they become more interested in their own culture, which is very – again, it’s very organic.

It’s far from all these thoughts about politics and anything we are involved with these days. And they are the bridge to a lot of non-Iranians who can learn about Iranian culture. I think one of them is you yourself, too. So it’s very nice to see what’s happening right now.

MV: For so many of us who have parents who grew up in Iran but were born in the U.S., it’s very easy at times, especially at such a large campus, to forget about those aspects of our culture. You see new generations of Iranian students who don’t speak as much Farsi, who aren’t as familiar with the music, who have never set foot in Iran. But playing the pieces that you compose or working with ensembles on our campus has been a way to travel to Iran without ever leaving.

SP: Exactly. Because sometimes kids become shy to speak because they are not confident to speak Persian, because they think they are not perfect. But when it comes to music, there is no border for that. So they go and learn that, so they are not shy about it. They become exposed to the culture, so they get excited and they go and learn more about it.

MV: Right. And we have a lot of students who are really excited about all of the concerts and events promoting Iranian music that are going to happen on UCLA’s campus this year. So to finish off today’s interview, I wanted to ask: What can we expect for this year’s lineup of Iranian music? What sort of events should we be looking out for as a student body?

SP: So the good news is that after the minor, now we are launching a new center for Iranian music, which was a gift from Dr. (Haleh) Emrani, in honor of her late husband. And this is very valuable for us because it gives us the opportunity to do even more, especially to do more research and have more concerts – not only to do more activity on campus with the students but also to have some kind of connection with the Iranian community or non-Iranians outside of the school. So we can bring people to UCLA to actually create this dynamic relationship that can bring a lot more resources for the school and for the community.

MV: So much to look forward to and so many exciting opportunities fof our students to get exposed to this beautiful music that you’re creating. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Paranj.

SP: Thanks for having me.

MV: This episode of Persian Perspectives Today was brought to you by Daily Bruin Podcasts. You can listen to this episode and all other Daily Bruin podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and SoundCloud. The audio and transcript of today’s interview are available at dailybruin.com. I’m Megan Vahdat. Thank you for listening.