Who deserves education?

Sunday, August 25, 1996

A Democrat and a Republican debate illegal immigrationBy Geoff
Martin

Summer Bruin Senior Staff

We recently invited Michael Schneider, president of the Bruin
Democrats, and Jason Steele, chairman of the Bruin Republicans, to
take part in a dialogue on immigration, in preparation for the 1996
national presidential election. This dialogue, on a series of other
topics, will continue next Fall Quarter ’96 as the election draws
closer.

Michael Schneider (MS): I don’t think either of us is going to
sit here and say that we are for illegal immigration.

The Republican Party, with their support of Proposition 187,
represents a very retroactive stance, and what needs to be taken in
this is a pro-active stance. It needs to be stopped at the border.
Once people are in here, we cannot possibly deny them the means of
survival.

The U.S. Constitution states that any person born in this
country is a citizen. People don’t come to this country to leech
off of America. They come here to make a better life for
themselves. I do [think] that we should try to make everybody’s
life here as good as possible.

Denying a child education, whether his parents are legal or
illegal immigrants, is absolutely wrong. The parents, not the
child, crossed the border. The child had no choice in the matter.
If we deny that child education, he will grow up in poverty, a
lower-class citizen, holding menial jobs. To give that child an
education is to give that child a chance to become a productive
member of American society.

Jason Steele (JS): First of all, education is not a basic human
right. Education is a right for American citizens whose parents
have come here legally and put into the system. It is true that
America is a nation of immigrants, but it is not a nation of
illegal immigrants.

If there is somebody to blame for those children’s predicament,
it is their parents who broke our laws and violated our national
sovereignty. We have laws, and those laws need to be obeyed. Mike
brought up the fact that we disagree about the means, but I also
think that there is disagreement about how much effort to put into
it. There is a large wing of the Democratic Party that advocates
open borders, which would make this whole argument moot.

MS: For the record there, I do not advocate open borders, and
neither do the Democrats.

JS: Okay. For the record. But for the record, I have to say that
a majority of Democrats did vote for Proposition 187 along with a
majority of conservatives.

[However], their view is, if you can at last get into the
country, then you can have all this free stuff. We say, "No, if you
break our laws, you pay the price," and if those people that break
the laws are going to force their children to pay the price, then
that is their fault, and not the fault of people who voted for
Proposition 187. Those kids are innocent victims of their parents’
mistakes, but we can’t allow their parents’ mistakes to go
unchallenged, either.

MS: By saying that they will be kicked out of school and sent
back to Mexico, you forget that if that becomes Unites States law,
those kids won’t go to school to begin with, because their parents
will want to stay here in hiding. This is a very retroactive
response to the immigration situation. The proactive thing we need
to do is to double our border security, for a start.

The Republican view on this is the same view as they have
towards crime. They are building more prisons and will solve
society’s problems of crime rather than putting more officers on
the street and limiting the access to violent weapons.

JS: Taking away someone’s incentive to break the law, I think,
is a fairly pro-active program, and that is what Proposition 187
did. The Republican Immigration Reform Bill, which just passed both
houses of Congress, included a provision for doubling the border
patrol agents over a five-year period. Clinton vetoed that and said
that he was vetoing it because it allowed states to deny benefits
to illegal immigrants.

MS: You make it sound like we’re saying: "Open the borders." At
this point, I cannot speak for my party, because we have no
platform on this right now. You have the luxury of having had your
convention last week, whereas I have to wait for next week for
mine.

JS: Well, also, you’ve got the luxury of attacking my
convention.

MS: That’s true.

JS: Whereas I can’t attack yours.

MS: All I really can speak on is my personal views. While taking
the incentives away may seem like a good solution, it is not going
to stop people from coming to this country.

Proposition 187 didn’t slow down immigration at all. What it has
done is increase the number of people applying for citizenship,
which is good. Eliminating illegal immigration is one thing, but
hurting people is another. You can say till you’re blue in the
face, "Their parents should have thought about that before they
brought that child here," but that child had no choice in the
matter, and bringing him here was his parents’ decision.

You don’t see education as a right; you see it as a privilege,
kind of like a driver’s license, whereas …

JS: I said that education was a right of citizens.

MS: Well …

JS: Do you disagree?

MS: I do agree that it is a right of citizens, but I believe
that it is a right. Our government has a responsibility to educate
those who may not be citizens. How do you feel about education for
legal immigrants?

JS: Legal immigrants, under the Republican Immigration Reform
Bill are allowed to go to public schools. You see, where we have a
distinction here is between people that obey the law and (illegal)
immigrants. I’ll allow you to recap your points, because I have a
response.

MS: The Republican platform sounds good, but only on paper. If
you want to look at it in a personal light, it’s a tragedy that
somebody could go without an education. If you want to look at it
in a monetary light, this is a person who is going to be a drag on
society, whether he is a citizen or not, if he is not educated.
That means that this is somebody who is going to have to be
supported by welfare, free medical care, and clinics ­ all
things that will cost our government money.

JS: You make a lot of assumptions about our platform. Just to
start off, I don’t think it’s a fair characterization of
Proposition 187 to say that it never worked. Proposition 187 has
not ever been implemented. The courts blocked it, and …

MS: Go ahead about the liberal courts!

JS: Well, a district court judge blocked it, even though a clear
majority of voters, 61 percent, if I recall, voted for it, and that
includes a majority of all the ethnic groups, including a majority
of Hispanic voters which represent the biggest portion of illegal
immigrants.

People come to this country, whether they are legal or illegal,
because they want to make a better life for themselves. The goal
here is to have legal people here in America. That should be the
goal. When we "kick the kids out of school" what we’re doing is
sending them back to Mexico where they are citizens. There is
nothing mean-spirited about it. The Republican Immigration Reform
Bill included a provision to allow states to deny benefits to
illegal immigrants, including children, because those children are
illegal aliens, too. Not only that, the Republicans have what you
term as a "pro-active" stance as well.

MS: A final note. I went to Neil Diamond’s concert last night in
the heart of Orange County where Republicans overwhelm us. When he
sang the song, "Coming to America," everybody stood up and got a
twinge in their heart and a tear in their eye even though they
don’t want people, most people coming to America. This is also the
party that cheers, "Send the boat people away," when a Cuban jumps
over a fence in an outfield during a playoff with an American
baseball team. We have a lot to work on here, and I think we’ll
both agree that our current policies cannot stand.

JS: As far as illegal immigration goes, let me just recount one
of my own experiences. I was at the Republican convention, and
there was a special section set up for protesters. They called it
the first-amendment section …

MS: That little parking lot?

JS: It was fairly small, but it was never filled up. I went down
there, and I was in the midst of this anti-187, pro-affirmative
action rally. And this shows what is wrong with how we debate the
issue. Bob Dole got up and said, "I am with you against
mean-spirited Republicans," just after the head of the movement got
up and pointed to the convention center and said, "That is nothing
more than a meeting of the KKK," talking about the Republicans. The
crowd cheered.

I think that leaders are monopolizing their constituents’
loyalties, and they are misinterpreting the motives of the people
that voted for 187 in saying that it is racist, even though the
majority of Hispanic voters voted for 187. Under the Republican
reform plan, we will still accept more immigrants than all the
other nations of the world combined.

MS: The demagoguery works both ways, of course. Newt Gingrich
said that the reason Susan Smith killed her kids was because of
Democrats.

JS: As a Republican I say, "Don’t look at what the Democrats say
the Republicans want to do," look at what the Republicans’ plans
are, and look at what we have done, because the facts speak louder
than words, demagoguery, and empty liberal accusations. The
Republicans’ record needs no defending. It speaks for itself, and
if people would read that, Bob Dole really should be the next
president.

PATRICK LAM/Daily Bruin

Michael Schneider, president of the Bruin DemocratsPATRICK
LAM/Daily Bruin

Jason Steele, chairman of the Bruin Republicans